Sun Tzu Goes to Washington »
Posted by: populist 1 month, 2 weeks agoToday's warhawks consider a prolonged war a form of economic output, or a shopping day for the military-industrial complex. Sun Tzu would remind us that this is short-sighted to the point of ruin: "There has never been a state which has benefited from a prolonged war."
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rightfromwrong1 month, 2 weeks ago
Good article - America is now seeing the ill effects of such policies with a heavy recession and hyper-inflation. 9/11 should have been investigated before assumptions and pointing a finger at a nation which 1)had no WMD 2) no affiliation with Al Qaeda - Saddam hated them.
America is in Iraq for the Trillions of the finest oil on the planet
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JohnQPublicComment removed: User banned.
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vor1 month, 2 weeks ago
That is the PNAC plan. Democracy in Iraq? That is just a sideshow to distract from the true objective - securing the 2nd largest known reserves in the world. Preventing the Chinese, Russians, Indians, or any other potential future rival from direct access. Only problem is that we are now paying through the nose for that oil and all other sources. And you are correct about the intent of the "permanent" bases in Iraq. Iraq was to be the beginning. The easy piece, with its citizens greeting us with flowers and candy.
It should have been a known consequence of putting the adamantly pro-Israeli neocons in charge of our foreign policy. Of course this upset the Arab world and then add Iraq to that and they are simply exacting their anger at the pumps. Why did Cheney feel it necessary to crucify the American consumer to execute his plans. What kind of patriot does that make him?
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AnteUp1 month, 2 weeks ago
Update ~
I just heard this on Bloomberg - but it appears it is not
really new news:
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-35669...
The IDF has been using IRAQI airspace to conduct exercises?
Practice for an Iranian strike?? Our ability, as the REAL
head-honcho in Iraq (no matter how al-Maliki TRIES to rule)
gives us the right to invite Israel to use Iraqi airspace?
Well, there's another reason but it had never crossed my
mind. It shouldn't surprise me - I knew I would never be
able to keep up with the measure of our duplicity. Did
anyone else know this was going on? Why hasn't it been on
the news?
CNN's Wolf Blitzer opened The Situation Room yesterday
pondering the implications of the THREATENING tests by Iran!
Funny - he never mentioned this!
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Natureboy1 month, 2 weeks ago
I am compelled to point out that Sun Tzu may not have anticipated capitalist economics.
Ours is an economy which is based on overproduction of product, disposability and waste. War is the perfect vehicle for such an economy - nothing is more disposable or wasteful than munitions. Use them once, there's nothing left of them. Takes care of unemployment too.
Our country has been waging wars big and small since I have been alive, and I am past the half-century mark. We have enjoyed the prosperity we have because we use both the sword and the pen to steal from the rest of the earth's peoples. Ours is not just a war-based economy, it is a war-based society and a war-based culture.
Sick of it?
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AnteUp1 month, 2 weeks ago
Natureboy ~
Re:".....nothing is more disposable or wasteful than munitions. Use them once, there's nothing left of them. Takes care of unemployment too."
There is a concept functioning in our government today that
any warm-blooded, or warm-hearted, person would find impossible to wrap their minds around - and that would be
your thoughtful comment above - but substitute "LIVES" for
munitions.
It is why their selling points for any new war always
stress defending the homeland and fear and patriotism
- because they know most citizens would be sickened by
there casual disregard for humanity - here - there or
anywhere.
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TonyByron1 month, 2 weeks ago
"We have enjoyed the prosperity we have because we use both the sword and the pen to steal from the rest of the earth's peoples."
Nonsense. Why do we give untold billions of dollars away every year to less developed societies?
US farmers overproduce and our charitable government buys it and gives it to the hungry. That money comes from taxpayers who are more than happy to help the disadvantaged. Don't forget the billions every year that are given through private charities to people all over the world.
And tell me, what have we stolen?
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hyperbola1 month, 2 weeks ago
Here again you point up your ignorance Tony.
1. The US has one of the very lowest rates of helping poor countries in terms of percentage of GDP. Several countries, e.g. Scandinavian countries, out do us by a factor of ten. Apart from that, much of our so-called "aid" is actually payoffs for buying US weapons.
2. The US has been a net importer of food for several years already.
As for "stealing", we regularly use our military as "private security" for corrupt corporations and politicians - and have been doing so for over a century. Learn some history. For example (to take something recently in the news), we have been screwing Panamanians and Columbians for over a century (ever since we split off Panama from Columbia to build "our" canal). At present we are again supporting right-wing fascists and narcotraffickers in the area.
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Sabretooth1 month, 2 weeks ago
Tony, everyday on here i read about hate and disdain for America's poor and disadvantaged. They are all lazy and a drain on the rich. Now you would have me believe that you only hate your own poor but you love all the poor people in third world countries?
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skyking2p1 month, 2 weeks ago
You are so right Natureboy. You have to wonder where the world would be today if all the money , time and effort that went into war had been used for the betterment of all. Where did they come up with the name "smart bomb"? Just shows you how stupid we are. I would vote for the " scientific industrial complex "
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Goppy1 month, 2 weeks ago
So true poppy!
Thanks for posting that.
That IS a major reason why Neo-Cons love Military Expansionism ... "Today's warhawks consider a prolonged war a form of economic output, or a shopping day for the military-industrial complex."
War is just one more expression of a healthy economy.
NOW... do yall understand why these Neo-Cons are A MORALLY VACANT poeple ... and how Christian Conservative unquestioning support of this ideeologie is a GRAPHIC example of how they have perverted the Christian Religion to rationalize the political preferences.
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populist1 month, 2 weeks ago
and to them a healthy economy is taking all our money - and deficit spending us into future oblivion - and transferring all that wealth to their corporate friends who profit from war.
War destroys the economy for us, and enriches a tiny few.
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Secret_Asian_Man1 month, 2 weeks ago
Confucius say soldier fight long and hard for bit of colored ribbon.
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Searchbeam1 month, 2 weeks ago
Next time you see a:
-broken bridge
-pot-holed road
-dilapidated city
-poverty-stricken neighborhoods
-under-performing students and broken school buildings
-trillions of dollars of deficit
-devaluation of the Dollar
-middle-class being pushed into poverty
-enormous loss of life
-megatons of pollution caused by bombs, artillary shells and
bullets
-billion dollar paychecks of oil company CEOs
-loss of the dignity and honor of a nation,
Thank the Unconstitutional, illegal and immoral war based upon lies and deceit.
Bin Laden could not have done so much damage that we inflicted upon ourselves.
Some day, there will be Judgment, and all the guilty parties will get their just reward!
War is hell! Unconscionable war is a living hell!
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Sabretooth1 month, 2 weeks ago
Well written Searchbeam. I like to remember the USA back in WWII when you were part of the good guys and had morals.
Bin Laden won the war the minute President Bush decided to invade Iraq. 19 men have bankrupted your nation, morally and financially and all you have for the money spent is an increase in terrorist recruiting and a drop in army recruiting.
I seriously hope next time you elect a leader with a higher IQ, one that will be able to understand the fight at hand, and learn that to win this war you will need to win over the planets population. My fear is that your government has absolutely no desire to win, but is just leaving the borders unsecured in the hopes of another attack to help spur your populace once again to battle.
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TonyByron1 month, 2 weeks ago
FTA: "And yet, it is the same Sun Tzu who also writes, "There has never been a state which has benefited from a prolonged war."
There are several states who probably disagree. Not least among them are those freed from the former USSR and now new members of the EU and NATO.
Remember the Cold War? The one primarily financed by the US?
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TonyByron1 month, 2 weeks ago
And this: "Quite simply, for the U.S. to begin another war of aggression, without a solid foundation of justification, is nothing short of idiocy; for the U.S. to begin a nuclear war as some have advocated is nothing less than evil."
It is mostly the rabid, anti-American, far left-wing radicals who are barking about war with Iran.
No one in the administration is remotely calling for war with Iran let alone nuclear war. This administration, along with others before it, has always said that "all options are on the table". That does not mean war, nuclear or otherwise, is imminent.
More nonsense blathering from the left wingnuts.
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Sabretooth1 month, 2 weeks ago
" It is mostly the rabid, anti-American, far left-wing radicals who are barking about war with Iran."
This must be the new Republican term for Patriot? Was it not that anti-American barking radical Rice who just spoke of coming to the defense of Israel against Iran?
I am coming to the conclusion that republican strength is in their ability to name call...they really do not have any useful ideas. Spreading hate will only get you so far although it seems you still do not get it, even after 8 years.
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Niimki1 month, 2 weeks ago
Maybe you should read the book you are quoting from....he was talking about the nations who are actually waging the prolonged war. It was also a book that had nothing to do with the level and cost of war today. He knew it depleted resources way back then. Imagine what he would have said about it today. The Art of War is about winning .....decisively...not drawn out like we try to do it now. That's why it was such a supposedly great book for cut throat executive types.
Extra point....The Book of Five Rings is better.
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ConquerorWyrm1 month, 2 weeks ago
Sun Tzu
The Art of War
(interpreted by the Conqueror Wyrm)
.
Essentials
Chapter 1
(expressed as a Chant Royale)
The Five Factors
.
War is a matter of vital importance
and it's practice is mandatory,
for life and death is the providence
and the outcome of martial study;
so thus the factors fundamental
be so impressed upon the General
who rises up to lead his nation,
whether in conquest or salvation,
for within these five it is revealed
that he who follows this instruction
shall taste of victory upon the field.
.
The first factor, moral influence,
must be inferred that harmony,
established through benevolence
and extending from his majesty,
set forth a wise and ethical
public measure for one and all;
for then a banded population
will stand together against aggression
and thus the Prince whose heart is steeled
against the sin of persecution
shall taste of victory upon the field.
(cont'd.)
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ConquerorWyrm1 month, 2 weeks ago
(cont'd.)
In preparation for the advance
of mounted troops and infantry,
one must first consider distance
and the terrain's difficulty
to thus determine their survival;
observing changes seasonal
and the state of Heaven's condition
with do respect and discretion
will ensure his forces shall not yield,
for he who here proceeds with caution
shall taste of victory upon the field.
.
The Respected One, in accordance
with wisdom born of sincerity,
will take advantage of circumstance
to prove his love for humanity
with a character that is noble
his command will be most martial
and he will win his troops affection
through courage and skill in action,
and if these virtues he doth wield
with a purposeful perfection
shall taste of victory upon the field
(cont'd.)
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ConquerorWyrm1 month, 2 weeks ago
(cont'd.)
.
Last of all, exercise prudence,
which must be practiced constantly,
and never shower extravagance
but pay close mind to consistency
regarding men, rank and material
or in any matter doctrinal;
for with such organization
with both supply and provision,
these factors five will form a shield
from which he who pays attention
shall taste of victory upon the field.
.
So ward, oh Prince, against destruction
and give these matters great reflection,
for if so, then your fate is sealed
and you, my lord, as the sovereign
shall taste of victory upon the field.
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ConquerorWyrm1 month, 2 weeks ago
The Keys of Strategy
(a Rhyme Royale)
.
Pay heed now to the Keys of Strategy
When preparing your estimation
For such will determine if victory
Is to be the fate of the Nation
Therefor develop situations
And act upon them in accordance
If you wish to control the balance
.
Verse 17
(a Tanka)
.
Study well, oh Prince,
for the art of deception
is mandatory
if you are to understand
the basis of all warfare
.
Verse 18 - 20
(a Terza Rima Sonnet)
.
When preparing the plot,
present your foe an irresistible offer;
what is and what is not -
the appearance of one in place of the other -
the truth to be obscured,
and an illusion presented of disorder;
the tactic to be preferred,
of offered enticement and temptation -
with reality deferred -
pretending disarray and inaction
and assistance far away,
will drive the enemy to distraction;
allowing on the battle day,
victory in the final foray
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ConquerorWyrm1 month, 2 weeks ago
Verse 21
(a Serventesio Quatrain)
.
Strike not the back of a tortoise,
nor at a hive of angry bees;
for one action serves no purpose,
the other serves the enemy.
.
Verse 22
(a Burns Sestet)
.
Consider the enemy leader;
For if he is prone to anger,
reckless and heedless of danger,
you must first confuse him
by ridiculing his power;
then you may destroy him.
.
Verse 23
(a Spenserian Stanza)
.
When asked, do not begrudge your neighbor
a gift of simple, worldly treasure;
reach out and kindly extend the favor
and feign an interest in his pleasure,
for this will bolster his pompous stature
and the measure of his arrogance;
but when for land he begins to pressure,
and it matters not for what distance,
destroy his presence with the fiercest resistance.
.
Verse 24
(a Crapsey Cinquain)
.
Press forth
a constant strain
wear your enemy down
and leave him no room to breath
then strike
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ConquerorWyrm1 month, 2 weeks ago
Verse 25
(a Triolet)
.
The enemy host, a house united,
against all force can make a stand;
To sever the ministers from their head
and those with whom he is united,
one must with devious rumors spread
and sow dissension through out the land;
the enemy host, a house divided,
is a house that can no longer stand.
.
Verse 26
(an (Octave Rima)
.
Study well the enemy master
and mark where he his force commits;
then strike unexpected disaster
against unprepared opposites
where least he expects an encounter;
for such as when the thunder hits
from lightning that is burning fierce,
there is no time to cover the ears.
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ConquerorWyrm1 month, 2 weeks ago
In Conclusion
(a Keats Sonnet)
.
It is not possible to know beforehand
all the variables you might encounter
for, as with all things, war, and the situations
thereof, shift in constant flux; and thus demand
a vigilant study of the five factors
which define the Art of War; you must study
with purposeful intent the dispositions
of nature and terrain, of your own command,
of doctrine and moral influence; therefor,
having thus prepared your calculations
based on what you know of the enemy,
yourself and of the factors five, predict
with a certain level of accuracy
a favorable outcome for the conflict.
...
(there are 12 more scrolls but I'm a lazy boy and haven't gotten to them all yet...brain fry)
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eugenegerard1 month, 2 weeks ago
I do not know what weapons WWIII will be fought with. I do know that WWIV will be fought with sticks and stones. ( A paraphrased quote from Albert Einstein.)
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mr2041 month, 2 weeks ago
The author is cherry-picking Sun Tzu. He said a lot of things, some of which support the American position perfectly.
And what does PopulistAmerica really know about companies that profit from manufacturing instruments of war? Cops buy weapons.
How much of a profit is there in manufacturing say missile guidance systems? How does that compare to other profitable endeavors like trading soybeans? Is the soybean market bigger or smaller than the weapons market?
American influence has spread throughout the world primarily through trade, not military might. So how do profits from trade compare to profits from war? If you did a spreadsheet of American companies that sell just IT services to the rest of the world and compared it with those that sell weapons, IT is going to beat weapons for the simple reason that the market is bigger.
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Goppy1 month, 2 weeks ago
I shure don't know where your point is there, mr. number. Poppy is simply makin a point and usin Sun Tzu to do it.
It's a valid point that many poeple feel in their 'gut'.
Now, before you counter me by saying that 'gut feel' is a poor method for conclusion makin ... please remember that it has been pointed out many, many times that this is the method of leadership favored by Goerge W. Bush.
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Niimki1 month, 2 weeks ago
Here is an idea....along with trade how about we spread American influence by living up to all those ideas and ethics we SAY we admire, but our government and corporations have turned their backs on for decades.
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Sabretooth1 month, 2 weeks ago
"The author is cherry-picking Sun Tzu. He said a lot of things, some of which support the American position perfectly."
Perhaps you could paste a few of the ones that support your position, it would certainly help your argument sir.
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ConquerorWyrm1 month, 2 weeks ago
"The author is cherry-picking Sun Tzu. He said a lot of things, some of which support the American position perfectly."
I agree with Sabretooth here. Please point out ANYTHING from SunTzu which supports current U.S. policy. Certainly it is not those small and pointless bits in the second scroll which talk about there never being a nation which has benefited from a prolonged conflict...
Hell, I'm pretty familiar with SunTzu. That bit of verse isn't my only attempt at reworking the masterpiece in my own words using verse. My current project is a series of intertwined sonnets with a projected length of 211 sonnets (about 10% done). I know my SunTzu.
Please tell me where our anything in this current U.S. policy is in accordance with the principles set out by SunTzu.
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jaspersneed1 month, 2 weeks ago
In the article:
"Surely we're not paying their [politicians] salaries just so they can read their bank statements?"
No, we're paying the salaries of the flunkies they hire to read their bank statements for them. Few politicians actually read anything themselves. They're briefed. Briefly. Sometimes in their briefs.
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