Books – If the words "swift" and "boat" must be combined and turned into a verb, then let us insist on its proper use...The word means, or should mean, the exposure of a fraudulent autobiography of one seeking political office or public influence.
FTA: "These corrective accounts of the Swift Vets are compelling and are the very definition of swiftboating. The term deserves the positive connotation of "whistle-blowing.""
Spot on! Huzzah!
At least Kerry saw combat in Vietnam, unlike Dick Cheney and GW Bush. I'll take Kerry's military record over GW Bush's and Dick Cheney's ANY day of the week.
Here is an investigation by Gerald Lechliter, a "registered Independent" and "retired Army colonel with active Marine enlisted service."
http://www.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/opinion/lec...
"The pay records released by the White House this past winter prove Bush received unauthorized fraudulent payments for inactive duty training. Bush failed to meet the statutory and regulatory fiscal year satisfactory participation requirement. Bush's superios in the National Guard failed to take required regulaotry actions when Bushed missed required training and failed to take his flight physical. Bush did not meet the requirements for satisfactory participation from 1972 to 1973."
Re: ybdogsct "At least Kerry saw combat in Vietnam, unlike Dick Cheney and GW Bush. I'll take Kerry's military record over GW Bush's and Dick Cheney's ANY day of the week."
It is amazing that you are still discussing irrelevant talking points from an election that took place 4 years ago.
Hey dip$hit, this entire article is about an election that took place 4 years ago!
First of all, f*ckface, I would love for you to try to call me dip$hit to my face. Second, the article is about today, certainly not about President George W. Bush or Vice President Dick Cheney, or bogus documents about either:
"The Left is now redefining and, therefore, misusing the term swiftboating, and this misuse has become one of the many notable aspects of the 2008 presidential campaign."
Schmuck. (And I would certainly call you that to your face, dip$hit.)
http://dir.salon.com/story/news/feature/2004/02...
"In 1972, George W. Bush walked away from the Texas Air National Guard. He skipped required weekend drill sessions, for more than a year, and did not take a mandatory annual physical exam, which resulted in his being grounded. According to his own discharge papers, there is no record that he did any training after May 1972. Indeed, there is no record that Bush performed any Guard service in Alabama at all. In 2000, a group of veterans offered a $3,500 reward for anyone who could confirm Bush's Alabama Guard service. Of the estimated 600 to 700 Guardsmen who were in Bush's unit, not a single person came forward.
In 1973 Bush returned to his Houston Guard unit, but in May of that year his commanders could not complete his annual officer effectiveness rating report because, they wrote, 'Lt. Bush has not been observed at this unit during the period of the report.'
Isn't it McCain, Clinton and Obama we need to be talking about? Bush isn't running for Pres. He's history.
TIREDOFWHINERS:
"Isn't it McCain, Clinton and Obama we need to be talking about? Bush isn't running for Pres."
Kerry isn't running for president either. Yes, I agree. Let's talk about McCain and what Vietnam veterans said about his military service. Let's talk about how Vietnam war veterans:
1) accuse McCain to be the beneficiary of nepotism for his famous father and grandfather by being accepted into the Navy, being awarded an officer position without completing officer training training, and having been given a passing grade in flight school even after crashing 5 airplanes.
2) accuse McCain of violation of the Uniform Code of Military Justice rules against adultery and fraternization with subordinates, when he would use Navy planes to have adulterous affairs with his subordinates.
Yes, let's talk about mcCain and what Vietnam veterans have to say about him.
http://dir.salon.com/story/news/feature/2004/02...
"Based on those records, as well as interviews with Texas Air National guardsmen, the Globe raised serious questions as to whether Bush ever reported for duty at all during 1973. Republicans clearly want to quarantine the issue of Bush's service and have it labeled as outside the bounds of acceptable public discourse."
The Swift Boat Veterans violated FEC campaign finance laws and as part of their conciliation agreement, agreed to pay a fine of $299,500, cease all operations, and donate the remainder of their funds to veterans injured in the Iraq war.
http://eqs.nictusa.com/eqsdocs/000058ED.pdf
"On December 2006, the FEC accepted the signed conciliation agreement and civial penalty submitted by the Wfit Boat Veterans and POWs for Truth in settlement of violations of 2 U.S.C. 433, 434, 441a(f), and 441b(a), provisions of the FEC Act of 1971, as amended."
Besides, several Republicans, like John McCain, defended Kerry's record:
http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/2004080...
"The Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, which gets most of its funding from Texas Republican activists, launched a TV spot in three battleground states yesterday repeatedly charging Kerry with lying about his Vietnam service.
'I think the ad is dishonest and dishonorable,' John McCain told the AP. 'None of these individuals served on the boat (Kerry) commanded. Many of his crew have testified to his courage under fire. I think John Kerry served honorably in Vietnam. It was the same kind of deal that was pulled on me [in 2000].'"
Even the Bush administration came to Kerry's defense:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=...
"The Bush campaign never has and will never question John Kerry's service in Vietnam."
FTA: "In 2004 the Swift Vets made them pay a little for that otherwise free pass by setting a small part of the record straight. This is the meaning of swiftboating, and we should demand more of it. All we have to lose are the dishonest autobiographies from our self-serving political class."
Now that rings true!! Thank you, Mr. Wickham, for a nice commentary and I'll be adding this book to my "must read" list.
If there was ever a case of "swiftboating", it was Dan Rather trying to use a forged document to sink a sitting president during an election year.
John O'Neill founded the Swift Boat Veterans For Truth for one reason - he and over 200 of his fellow sailors didn't want John Kerry to be Commander in Chief. Period.
You are exactly right.
Keeping Kerry from being president was what it was about.
They had hated him for years speaking against the war.
It was not about the truth. It was about politics. It was political advertising, from haters, to those willing to believe the words of hate.
"It was about politics."
Spoken like a true partisan wonk. Politics is everything to you. The honor and duty that soldiers feel is completely alien to you.
You really don't get it, do you?
Never been called a policy wonk before. Cool.
But if politics was everything to me, -
then I would be slandering John McCain like you did Kerry.
But I won't.
McCain's a hero, even if he's a hero I disagree with. So's Bob Dole.
Tell me about the respect YOU give soldiers when they are not politicaly aligned with you. Carter, Murtha, Gore, Kerry,Cleland; have you defended their honor?
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242)
FTA: "The Left is now redefining and, therefore, misusing the term swiftboating, and this misuse has become one of the many notable aspects of the 2008 presidential campaign. Democratic candidates and their partisans in the blogosphere use this word to mean smearing their candidates for public office with lies and innuendo."
That is a very accurate statment judging by numerous comments I see here on Propeller.
it has been a constant on Propeller.....any article backed by facts that is critical of either of the Democratic candidates and the cries of swiftboating soon appear
PC25
"it has been a constant on Propeller.....any article backed by facts that is critical of either of the Democratic candidates and the cries of swiftboating soon appear"
Swiftboating, playing John Kerry's own words and images is somehow a lie.
Is it ignorance, envy or both that drives these Dems to cling to the façade that somehow Kerry's words are distorted.
Swift boating is the bitter pill of truth.
INJEST:
"Swift boating is the bitter pill of truth."
Here are some more "bitter pills of truth"--this time about John McCain from the very Vietnam veterans you and SON are citing in this thread.
http://www.usvetdsp.com/jan08/mccain_military_r...
"McCain's grades were 'marginal.' He drew so many demerits for breaking curfew and other discipline issues that he graduated fifth from the bottom of the class of 1958."
http://www.vietnamveteransagainstjohnmccain.com...
"Navy pilot John Sidney McCain III should have never been allowed to graduate from the U.S. Navy flight school. He was a below average student and a lousy pilot. During his relative short stunt on flight status, McCain III lost five U.S. Navy aircraft, four in accidents. Robert Timberg wrote that McCain's 'performance was below par, at best good enough to get by.'"
"Here are some more "bitter pills of truth"--this time about John McCain from the very Vietnam veterans you and SON are citing in this thread."
And how exactly could anything you or anyone else say that changes John Kerry's 1971 testimony?
Try and stay on topic.
Big problem on this is that Kerry was telling what other vets had told him. Btw all of those claims was verified by indepedant sources. Obviously a lot of people have never heard about the Tiger Force unit of the Army's 101st Airborne Division who killed and mutiliated hundreds of unarmed and innocent South Vietnamese civilians over a seven month period in 1967. An army investigation substainted that 20 war crimes had been commited by 18 soldiers of the unit. This four year investigation reached the Pentagaon and the white house before the investigation was closed in 1975.
Funny how the US army, Marines, Navy all have been found to have conducted investigations into war crimes commited by US Military Personal during Vietnam and were closed when it was found that atrocities and war crimes had indeed been commited by US military forces. These investigations were conducted in secret and closed so no court martial could take place. Contray to the Geneva Conventions and US miltiary code.
War,bad things happen.People want young men to go to war,do the dirty work.But they don't want to hear the truth about the dirty work,don't want to know about it and if they get a smell of the ugliness they want to deny that it happens.Even when vets tell them the truth they still don't want to believe,and will turn on the vet and brand him a liar.Sad.
BTW anyone who is Car-qual is a dam good pilot.
http://www.usvetdsp.com/mcaindiv.htm
"While he was imprisoned, Carol was in an auto wreck (1969), thrown through her car's windshield and left seriously injured. Despite her injures, she refused to allow her POW husband to be notified about her condition, fearing that such news would not be good for him while he was being held prisoner.
When McCain returned to the United States in 1973 after more than five years as a prisoner of war, he found his wife was a different person. The accident "left her 4 inches shorter and on crutches, and she had gained a good deal of weight."
In his book, The Nightingale's Song, Robert Timberg chronicled McCain's post-Vietnam military assignments and some of his "adulterous" behavior leading to his divorce from Carol and marriage to Cindy Hensley."
http://www.vietnamveteransagainstjohnmccain.com...
"McCain, the "below par" pilot, eventually lost 5 military aircraft, the first during a training flight in 1958 when he plunged into Corpus Christi Bay while trying to land.
He assumed command of the RAG, which trained pilots and crews for carrier deployments. The assignment was controversial, some calling it favoritism, a sop to the famous son of a famous father and grandfather, since he had not first commanded a squadron, the usual career path.
While Executive Officer and later as Squadron Commander McCain used his authority to arrange frequent flights that allowed him to carouse with subordinates and 'engage in extra-marital affairs.' This was a violation of the Uniform Code of Military Justice rules against adultery and fraternization with subordinates."
All your anti-mcCain stuff seems to have nothing to do with this article. The point is that when you expose a lie of a candidate you are swift boating. McCain hasn't made up a story about his high grades, valor, purity etc. Some of what you say I've heard McCain himslef admit (5th from bottom of class). Do you realize that just to be admitted to the Naval Academy, you have to be near or at the top of your high school class and then some? His carousing and rejecting his first wife isn't something you'd expect him to brag about. Kerry certainly didn't brag about his marrying for money. Try another thread to criticize McCain.
TIRED:
"Do you realize that just to be admitted to the Naval Academy, you have to be near or at the top of your high school class and then some?"
Not in McCain's case, which you would have known IF you had read the full articles written by Vietnam veterans that I posted. McCain was accepted because his father and grandfather were admirals. McCain was a "legacy child" accepted for whom he knew instead of for what he knew. In the same way, GW Bush was accepted into Yale's undergraduate and Harvard MBA program as a "legacy child," certainly not based on merit alone.
TIRED:
"when you expose a lie of a candidate you are swift boating."
Have you exposed Kerry as a liar? Where's your evidence? Kerry's story is supported by an OFFICIAL investigation by the armed forces and the first-hand testimony of those on his boat. The Swift Boaters only claim to have been in nearby boats but have no EVIDENCE to prove how close their boats were to Kerry's.
any article backed by facts>>>>
Facts? What would those 'articles' be? Could you do me a favor & point me to them? I seem to have missed that, but then I don't spend a whole lot of time searching. Anyway, I'd like to know what articles you mean, and read where people called them 'swiftboating.' You know, judge the accuracy of your comment with the 'facts.' Thanks so much.
The facts about Kerry's service are these:
1) An official investigation awarded Kerry a Purple Heart.
2) Almost all of the survivors on John Kerry's boat corroborated Kerry's story.
3) John McCain defended Kerry's service.
The facts about Bush and Cheney:
1) Cheney sought multiple deferments.
2) Bush was absentee, according to Gerald Lechliter, a "registered Independent" and "retired Army colonel with active Marine enlisted service."
http://www.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/opinion/lec...
"The pay records prove Bush received unauthorized fraudulent payments for inactive duty training. Bush failed to meet the statutory and regulatory fiscal year satisfactory participation requirement. Bush's superiors in the National Guard failed to take required regulatory actions when Bushed missed required training and failed to take his flight physical. Bush did not meet the requirements for satisfactory participation from 1972 to 1973."
I THINK YOU ARE WORRIED THAT PEOPLE ARE AWARE OF SWIFTBOATING AND WILL NOT SO EASILY FALL FOR IT. TO ME THIS IS A SILLY ATTEMPT TO BLAME THE VICTIMS FOR YOUR STUPID ACTIONS. AMERICA IS THE WISER NOW FROM HAVING ENDURES YOUR LIES, YOUR RUN FOR A SMALL TIME HAS COME TO AN END. IF YOU THINK YOU ON THE RIGHT ARE THE ONLY ONES PLAYING ROUGH THIS TIME AROUND THINK AGAIN! WE PLAN TO GIVE YOU AS GOOD AS WE GET. I HAVE SEEN THE STORIES POSTED HERE BY SOME OF YOU ON THE RIGHT CALLING IT LIGIMIT...OHLY A 4 YEAR OLD WOULD BUY THAT CRAP AND REMEMBER THEY ARE NOT VOTING!
The whole premise of this article is that John Kerry lied about his Vietnam service and that the Repug 527 behind the Swiftboating told the truth. Since that is a total reversal of the Naval records and of the testimony of the crew Kerry commanded, the article itself gives swiftboating the exact opposite definition from that most Americans understand it to be.
A new low for the New RepugniCon slander machine.
Is it similar to Borking?? Democrats are proud of that one. If it is good for the goose its good for the gander. Democrats started that tradition and yell when it is their turn. Kennedy viciously went after a nominee for judge and later told the man there was nothing personal it was just politics. Attempting to lie and destroy a mans reputation is just politics. Why do you think that it is OK for Democrats but not Republicans. At least the swift boaters were serving in boats near him and told what they saw and didn't lie.
ENDOSCOPY:
"Is it similar to Borking?"
It truly is a pity that Robert Bork, the man who carried out Richard Nixon's Saturday Night Massacre in an effort to save Richard Nixon from his IMPEACHABLE actions, wasn't appointed to be a Supreme Court justice. After all, what other Republican could better embody the ideals of justice and truth, like Robert Bork -- the man who carried out Richard Nixon's Saturday Night Massacre.
Last i checked Kerry didnt lose because of swiftboating. He 'lost' because of the cheating (astronomical probability to not be so)that took place in Ohio and most importantly because a segment of the US population has engaged in mental paralysis for the last 20yrs ignoring world trends, abandoning science and logic, embracing the most hypocritical version of religion man has ever created (betraying the true core of Christ's teachings 100x over) and celebrating short term cannibalism of society for profit as the neoamerican dream.
Anyone here who has the bloody audacity to claim that a jackass that avoided to serve for his country during war and has since sacrificed sons and husbands and treasure across the US to empower his oil sob friends worldwide stands above he who risked life, to the point to believe that swiftboating campaign of 2004 actually performed a service deserves the full misery history will remember GWB with and those traitors that enabled him. 2008 will turn it all!
LOL
In 2000 Democrats lost because of wrong counting of the ballots and the Supreme court. In 2004 is was what happened in Ohio. They never lose it is always stolen from them. I think they are crying wolf.
http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/10432334...
very interested who is trying to delete the following wikipedia article as well;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_United_States...
Wikipedia is not reputable and/or acceptable as a source for anything. Try a real encyclopedia or other factual, non-editable by any schmuck out there, source of information.
Yes yes i like this argument so much my friend. Wikipedia is supposed to be garbage because everything that is made from the good will of people and without a profit is garbage according to some. The fact remains i have used wikipedia to read about topics even in my own field where i have thousands of books at home , my university library and ebooks. I have yet to see anything i read in my field that looked wrong . It is easy to spot where the problem is with an article if you are already educated and intelligent. Its like watching the news on TV from a very good channel. You dont exactly give the news on TV 100% validitity now do you or that of a newspaper. You examine what you read then adjust it with what you already know and you try to verify what seems risky with other sources. If you do that you will realize that the product that wikipedia has created although not perfect , at the hands of an intelligent being is valuable and contributes to a broad education.
I always look for more sources to read. I never trust for example an article that looks to have no references or that has references of limited variety. This doesnt mean that in those cases what i read is a lie but it means i have to work further to examine that information. I place what i read in wikipedia while using my own mind at the same time at such a high degree of confidence that what i watch on TV or or any politician and their operators stands 10 times below that by comparison . Always use your critical mind with any information provided to you that you cannot mathematically or experimentally verify the steps one by one. That way its easy to see how wrong something looks. Trust me i will never post any wikipedia link here that i am not personally safe with. Additionally there is a way to see what was edited in an article ,by whom and when. Often enough the very article states that what it says needs further verification or is disputed. I respect wikipedia for it.
Just because you like it doesn't make it any more reputable or acceptable by Universities as a reputable source.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Kerry_militar...
Try reading more about it.
By the way dont forget that segment;
Several members of SBVT served in the same unit as Kerry, but only one, Stephen Gardner, served on the same boat. A number of Kerry's later SBVT critics claimed to have been present on accompanying Swift Boats, at some of the salient events of Kerry's enemy engagements in Vietnam.
Other SBVT members included two of Kerry's former commanding officers, Grant Hibbard and George Elliott. Hibbard and Elliott have alleged, respectively, that Kerry's first Purple Heart and Silver Star were undeserved. In addition, members of SBVT have questioned the merit of Kerry's other medals and his truthfulness in testimony about the war.
Defenders of John Kerry's service record, including virtually all of his former crewmates, have stated that SBVT's accusations are false.
--
The last sentence is telling indeed.
You of course know what is taking the superpower down in flames dont you. The very fact that in 2008 with serious issues pending we have the amazing ever lasting devotion to finding as many topics as possible that can polarize and irritate each other. Yes lets relive 1968 because it is so very much relevant to 2008. Lets split rice over how big injury one had, how close to death he didnt come when the other guy is sitting safely half a world around protected due to his family's influence. Lets celebrate that shouldnt we? Lets smear , lets find lies , lets make people hate each other , lets betray all the nobility and sense of patriotism that ancestors once had . Lets belittle everything, lets live the future in the past immersed in lies, lets close our eyes to our problems and try to find who's pastor said what, how many ways a sentence can be rotated, inverted examined for proper spelling , grammar and voice tone because we dont have what it takes to talk real topics instead!!!
"we have the amazing ever lasting devotion to finding as many topics as possible that can polarize and irritate each other."
You have succeeded in doing just that.
How do irritate and polarize here? Cant you feel my pain that i see something valuable and important for mankind, a system that stood for science, technology, innovation , freedom , enthusiasm , optimism a great number of good qualities is being wasted in the hands of inept people that cannot ever rise above partisan positions? It happens wordwide not only in the US but it is pronounced here only because it inflicts the maximum loss given the wasted opportunities. We need leaders that will unite us behind objectives that uplift our lives, make us more responsible, proud and heroic at the same time. We need a moon project. Call it today an energy project , an environment project , an education-science project. We need to invest in our ultimate utility, human beings. How is the average citizen improved by endless political debates about abortion, gay marriage, taxes for the superrich, stem cells , creationism in biology texts or permanent fears about mythological terrorism giants?
WELL SAID SOTIRIS - I feel the 2 negs you got is more out of reflex action and shame than disagreement! What I worry about and wonder if the citizens can do anything about it is the highest court in the land. What if we are before them again in this election? It's easy to do just contest any close states and it could go all the way to them. The right under bush has set the courts up to in essence steal every election for a very long time!
I trust that a leader with vision and intellect can position himself(or herself - well not this time lol soon i hope) in such a way that courts cannot bypass the truth. I hold both Gore and Kerry partially responsible for not forcing with their own conduct the problems in such a way as to make the courts take a more balanced position . If Gore had insisted relentlessly for a recount in the entire state of Florida and urged the courts to enforce exactly that without spending too much time in limited cases where the delays were easier to introduce he would have had a proper result. It is very easy to make the courts look inept in the eyes of the broad population if you have the intellect to point to the right direction. Nobody can resist to a leader that rises above his personal gain and demands something extremelly proper to be done. Problems in Florida werent only for democrats but also for republicans. All counties needed adjustments. Thats where he lost valuable time early.
I find it rather humorous that a political affiliation that has so ardently attempted to redefine our language would be submitting this. You know what I mean; Liberal, Patriotism, Rule of Law, Family Values.....& so on. Me thinks ya'll are projecting there, sport.