How Lost the War Is »
Posted by: progressive-bum 1 year, 1 month agoNeither the President nor the war's intellectual architects are prepared to admit this. Nonetheless, the specter of defeat shapes their thinking in telling ways.
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progressive-bum1 year, 1 month ago
This sums it up, however, it was obvious to anybody who would have bothered to pay attention, that Iraq was a lost cause going in.
The only consistency I see in our president is that he has run into the ground anything he touched.
Welcome to the new American reality, land of the fascist bots.
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MichaelRhodenteComment removed: User banned.3 Replies
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mozzer1 year, 1 month ago
A lenghty and illuminating read. It's well worth everyone's time. Thanks, ProgressiveBum.
From the article:
"The case for the war is no longer defined by the benefits of winning -- a stable Iraq, democracy on the march in the Middle East, the collapse of the evil Iranian and Syrian regimes -- but by the consequences of defeat. As President Bush put it, 'The consequences of failure in Iraq would be death and destruction in the Middle East and here in America.' "
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vor1 year, 1 month ago
It is very, very important that those on the Left who oppose this administration understand that GW Bush had very little to do with formulating the neo-con policies he has implemented. The odd part, and this quite true is that if you listen to his speeches as Governor of texas and his speeches now, there is little resemblance. Weird. But it was Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Kristol, Feith and all the other neo-con brethren who came up with the idea of re-invading Iraq and securing America's place as the sole superpower on Earth. Without 9/11 none of this would have happened. One reason I don't think you will see specific action against OBL from this administration. He provided the "New Pearl Harbor' they had long spoken of in order to allow them to implement these insane policies of 'total war". Unless you believe the 9/11 truthers, which I do not.
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humemacdonald1 year, 1 month ago
"Constitutionally, Iraq's central government has almost no power, and the Bush administration is partially to blame for this. When the constitution was being drafted in 2005, the United Nations came up with a series of proposals that would have made for more workable sharing of power between regions and the central government. The U.S. embassy stopped the UN from presenting these proposals because it hoped for a final document as centralized as (and textually close to) the interim constitution written by the Americans."
Great article/book review- I agree Mozzer well worth the time.
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ETproductions1 year, 1 month ago
Bush is an utter comedy act now. He is vacillating between blaming the obvious loss of HIS war on the American People, the Press, Hillary Clinton, and Democrats in general; and at the same time claiming he's got it won, or "we're fighting them there so we don't have to fight them here" -- Something the new National Intelligence Estimate makes it abundantly clear is a just another Bush LIE. How long are Americans going to continue to listen to this BS while they sacrifice their sons and daughters to maintain Bush's war so he can pass it on to the next president, then blame the future administration for all his miscalculations?
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NelsonR1 year, 1 month ago
Keith Olberman again summed it up this evening. Bush through his proxy's are basically blaming the American people and directly accusing Hillary (don't like her) for the Iraq war situation. Not Georgie's fault he's the decider and Commander in Chief, infallible.
Keith is asking again for impeachment, probably to late, but this man will NEVER EVER have a legacy to be proud about.
Mr. Olberman is quite emphatic and rational in his emotional appeal for common sense within America. Bush/Cheney are a blight for all those values America once cherished. Fear and scare tactics are now the norms for Americas political agendas.
A must see video for all.
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Obaku1 year, 1 month ago
Yet more evidence of the complete disregard for reality in the neocon world of delusion.
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MichaelRhodenteComment removed: User banned.9 Replies
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HMMace1 year, 1 month ago
If our intent was to topple Saddam, we did, so now --we should get out..If our intent was to install a democracy in the middle of the muslim countrys, we are not done..AND..it may not be possible..muslims are not your ordinery people..The way the operate, does not make "common" - sense..We, (the west) stopped some christians from killing muslims , do we get any congrats?? Nope, we get our buil;dings blown up..Were we on the wrong side in Serbia??
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DoseASpinoza1 year, 1 month ago
The author clearly said that is the only part of Iraq that can reasonably saved. He does not disagree with you about that going forward.
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farmerman1 year, 1 month ago
Of course the war is lost. Just listen to the daily pronouncements of the Libs and the old media. In fact when we win the war, not only Al Quada loses, but so do our Libs who have completely invested the future of their Party in our defeat. The Left is terrified that we will win and daily support our enemies in attacking Bush and blaming America for every ill in the world. Dean and Reid have both said we have lost. Of course they are wrong and the American people will remember these traitors and how they and the Libs have worked constantly to undermine this Great Nation and our brave military people.
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farmerman1 year, 1 month ago
What a Lib love-in this thread is. You smug, elitist anti-America trash. We will win in Iraq, unless we elect some cut and run, coward Lib as our next President. With the poor job the Lib Congress is doing, I would say the Repubs have at least a 50/50 chance to win the Presidency. If Fred runs and you run that Muslim, Hussein then our odds go up substantially. The only thing that could be better for us is a Hussein/Jesse Jackson ticket.
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HannibalBarca1 year, 1 month ago
What are you winning? The Iraq army was beaten, Baghdad occupied and Saddam tried and executed. Unlike WW!! when Germany and Japan accepted defeat and rebuilt under a new ideal, this is not happening in Iraq. Instead the occupation is creating more unrest than was there to begin with. USA is getting deeper and deeper in debt, and China is holding all the cards. The longer USA stays deadlocked in Iraq, the stronger China will become and they will be your major competitor.You need to start re-thinking about what is happening else where in the world rather than just Iraq/Iran
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IanFraigun1 year, 1 month ago
We can stay a million years and lose a hundred million lives and we will not win.
No time in history and no time in the future will the military intervention of an outside country win an internal civil war which Iraq has become.
We destroyed the one leader, as bad as he may have been, who kept a lid on the hatreds between factions and allowed this to grow into what it is today.
Even the major republican think tanks have said and are saying there is NO MILITARY solution. So what does your favorite administration do. It simply throws more military lives into a meat grinder rather than working toward the required diplomatic solution.
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bongy3371 year, 1 month ago
Its really sad how this administration sent our sons and daughters to die for a lie. And for them to keep linking 9/11 with this campaign is a crime against humanity and our constitution. We all know 9/11 was an inside job. As long as the controlled media keeps spouting these lies from the white house as fact, they have succeeded in creating a fascist state.
http://patriotsquestion911.com/engineers.html
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IanFraigun1 year, 1 month ago
We do not all know it was an inside job. Still a long way from proving that.
What we do know is it was not an Iraq led attack. It was led by a faction supported by the then government of Afghanistan and of those involved the vast majority were Saudi's.
We also do know that the planner of that attack has been allowed th remain free and recruit and plan more attacks while our troops die in Iraq for a lie or maybe as had been said for oil.
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DoseASpinoza1 year, 1 month ago
That's an interesting position, have you posted it separately?
Personally, if Bush is behind it I don't think he has the proverbial brains to blow his nose. Cheney and the rest of the neocons are another matter.
Should we start a pool on whether someone will strike during Bush's colonoscopy, that sliver of time when Cheney is acting president?
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zembel1 year, 1 month ago
President George W. Bush is convinced, in the face of all evidence to the contrary, that he is on the right course in the war in Iraq and the struggle against terrorism. He says he will not change his mind. Thus, we are at an historic moment; and we would be well advised to see what light historians might shed on our current predicament in Iraq and the basic (but unanswered) question as to why so many people resort to terrorism against us.
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DoseASpinoza1 year, 1 month ago
This is a thoughtful analysis and a worthwhile post. Most of the analysis that seems to bubble up is very broad brush and seems disconnected from the realities there. The media is awash in the political debate here but does not incorporate much to help understand the political situation there.
Thanks for posting.
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ML20071 year, 1 month ago
I thought the article was enlightening. I didn't understand the ties many of the Shiites have with Iran. I know many of the Shiites hate the Iranian Shiite counterpart because of the war between Iraq and Iran. Isn't it strange what kind of bed fellows war makes? I have advocated an Iraqi exit plan that includes leaving advisers and special forces to help fight Al Queda. I have always viewed the Kurds as our allies and the most sensible of the three factions who makeup most of Iraq, but I have never considered what they offer in this article. I agree with their assessment. Leaving a presence and protecting the Kurds is a logical choice. Not a fan of Hilary, I was shocked to see she is one of few of our Presidential hopefuls who has picked up on this. Although I was against the war from the beginning, Bush, Congress, and company has gotten us into a mess. For America's benefit, maybe we should all pick up on this?
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farmerman1 year, 1 month ago
I was censored earlier in this post. Of course I was given no reason. I suppose one of you delicate little girlyman Libs was upset that a Conservative would have the nerve to express their views on Libscape. I guess it is kind of like global warming. The issue has been settled and anyone who disagrees is an idiot or being paid by big oil. Only here it has been settled that Bush lied, Bush is bad, America is bad and if a Conservative disagrees, then you will censor him. Some of you wanted to do this with talk radio, but you lost that one. Well, you can censor us all you want, afterall Libscape is you own private Bush/American bashing outlet, but we are going to keep challenging you LIbs and your anti-American goals.
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MichaelRhodenteComment removed: User banned.6 Replies
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farmerman1 year, 1 month ago
I've always fought my own fights and will continue to do so. Actually I was one of the big kids so were my brothers, so we could take care of ourselves.
It is you Muslim terrorists that are going to come out the major losers in this religious war. It looks like even the cowardly French may fight back. So the new Conservative French leader may have some backbone and start expelling you Muslims. Time will tell.
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ML20071 year, 1 month ago
Naw, it wasn't me. I am not afraid of ilk like you, and I am not a liberal. Shoot, if you really got something to say, just keep challenging away. If this is Libscape, just what is your affinity with it? Do you have any issue to discuss or are you interested mostly in attacking your perception of me?
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farmerman1 year, 1 month ago
A big bank account isn't going to do you much good when the Muslims put the knife to your throat. But you may be able to convert and wear a nice little Burka and take a good Muslim gentleman for a husband. I hope you don't mind a little violence in your relationship and enjoy Sharia Law.
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hurr11 year ago
One thing is for sure, the generals should find a way for our troops to stay off the roads (roadside bombs).
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Submitted By:
progressive-bum
As an immigrant to this country, I tend to see things in a more global perspective. I am appalled at how polarized society has become ...
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